This article was submitted by one of our readers, Atreus. We welcome any contributions (as long as those contributions conform to the law and are in reasonably good taste) from our supporters. Please send your articles to us at lancaster.uaf@zen.co.uk
Only one thing surprises me about the current rumpus within the BNP.
That it took so long to happen.
The far Right's ability to rip itself asunder in vicious internal division is the one consistent thing about it. And I should know, because until comparatively recently I was one of them.
Allow me to take you on what was, for me, a long journey to enlightenment, one that began in the early 1970's when, fresh out of school and newly into work, I was inducted into the ways of casual racism and homophobia.
I was a country boy. You could count the number of 'coloured' people I'd seen in my life on the fingers of one hand, and they were nearly always the bus drivers who travelled the route from the city (which shall remain nameless) to our village and back again. The city was somewhere I didn't really know and had few reasons to visit. In those days your mum caught the bus in to do the shopping and buy your clothes every Saturday. To work, though, I had to go into the city.
It was a huge culture shock. In the outer suburbs you'd see the odd black face or an exotically dressed Asian woman, but as I got to know the city better I realised there were whole districts where immigrants had a significant presence. And it shocked me.
At work you would routinely refer to these immigrants as "w*gs", "n*gg*rs", etc. Everybody did, and there was always talk of them "taking over". Work also brought me into contact with the first homosexual man I had ever met, a slightly effeminate quality control inspector who was probably very conscious of the remarks and the sniggering going on behind his back.
I didn't see any of these people as being completely human. They definitely weren't my equal.
Somewhere along the line I became interested in Germany's Nazi period. The more I read up on it, or saw on television, the more I realised how close to German National Socialism my own hardening views were. I became very critical of what I saw on television or read in books, and one day so upset my father with what I thought of as my "fairness" towards wartime Germany that he angrily shouted that if the Germans had come to England I would have been a Quisling.
At that time, he was probably right.
On a day out to London I was standing outside Euston station and noticed some stickers plastered over a bus shelter. They were very colourful, and I could just make out the words "Stop Immigration, Start Repatriation". This was my meat! I went over to read the stickers. It was the first time I'd ever heard of the National Front, and I carefully noted down their address: 50 Pawson's Road, Croydon.
As soon as I got home I fired off a letter asking for information, and about a fortnight later there was a knock on the door. It was the organiser of the local group and his wife. Knowing that my parents wouldn't be very happy to have them indoors, I kept them outside where we talked for nearly an hour. They left me with a copies of "Britain First" and "Spearhead", and gave me directions to the pub where the group met. I couldn't wait, and the same day posted off my membership application.
It was a coincidence that my membership card arrived on the same Thursday I was due to attend my first meeting. I was pleased and proud, and as I chatted to the other members of the group before the meeting began, I knew I was Home.
The meeting itself was a bit boring for a 19 year old, but the drinking and the socialising afterwards more than made up for it (the NF was big on drinking). There were fifteen of us in the group at that stage. Two of them had been in the National Socialist Movement with Colin Jordan and John Tyndall, another had been in Jordan's successor British Movement, and the two oldest members had been in Mosley's BUF.
They all regaled me with their memories of far Right derring-do stretching back to before the war, and if there was one thing that came over it was that almost everybody in the group had some degree of sympathy for German National Socialism.
Over the weeks we started delivering leaflets door to door on Monday nights, and on Saturday's began selling "Britain First" and "Spearhead" in the city centre. This activity brought us to the attention of the local "Reds" belonging to the International Socialists (as the SWP called itself then) and the International Maxist Group, and pretty soon we weren't so much selling papers as fighting a weekly war. To my own surprise I found I could handle myself very well.
We put on members and became a fully fledged National Front branch, our meetings in early 1974 attracting over thirty members (though our paper membership was about 120). We began to cooperate with nearby branches when selling our papers, and our numbers dissuaded the IS and IMG from attempting any physical confrontation. We weren't averse to "culling" them, though. For every paper seller we had two or three others watching, and if they could isolate a stray Red for a bit of quiet retribution, they would.
The February 1974 General Election really made our branch. We pitched in with our Birmingham comrades, who were fighting three seats. By then I'd been elected on to our branch committee and was entitled to attend West Midland Regional Council meetings. At my first WMRC I realised that not everybody in the NF gravitated towards National Socialism, or at least, not in public.
There had been an influx of ex-Monday Club types, exemplified by Tom Finnegan, a powerful, persuasive man, who brought their experience in the Conservative Party to the National Front. Mostly they were racist to the core, but they were also pragmatists. Members like me saw John Tyndall and Martin Webster as living links to the Nazi past. Influential members like Tom Finnegan saw them as impediments to progress, and the influence of people like him began to seep into our branch.
Though we didn't stand a candidate in February 1974, we did benefit from the huge number of enquiries that came as a result of our election broadcast. We regularly had new people at our meetings, most of them former Tory activists or voters, and soon had to find a bigger meeting room. We didn't stop to think what this increase in membership might mean.
The next big activity of 1974 was to be a march and rally in London, on June the 15th. I don't need to repeat what happened there, other than to say "Red Lion Square".
Those of us who'd been on the march were cock-a-hoop at the publicity, and fired up by the rousing speeches of Tyndall and Webster in Conway Hall. But there were grumblings in some quarters of the home camp, which we didn't take very seriously.
There was also the tragic death of student Kevin Gately, which overshadowed the day. To us, he was just another Red who had got what he deserved. Five years later the death of Blair Peach at Southall brought out similar expressions of sympathy.
A march in Leicester came next, with more violence and more publicity. It ended with a meeting in a school, where John Tyndall gave the speech of his life. There was also a television film camera in the hall, and we were soon to find out why.
Our branch was well prepared for the October 1974 General Election. Unfortunately our candidate was a virtual illiterate, but he was the only one prepared to stand. His agent knew what he was doing, but privately we knew we had to keep our candidate away from the press and never let him go near a public platform. At a WMRC meeting before the election one of Tom Finnegan's associates approached me to ask if I thought our candidate was up to the job. I had to admit he wasn't. Then he asked "Is he a Nazi?" which I thought was strange, and finally, "Something bad is going to happen, very soon."
The "something bad" turned out to be the infamous (to the far Right) "This Week" documentary, "The National Front", where the Nazi pasts of John Tyndall and Martin Webster were exposed for the whole country to see. It didn't faze me, I already knew that, but for our newer members it was a real problem and they were determined to do something about it.
Standing a candidate in the October 74 General Election was almost the last positive thing we did for a long time. The party was fracturing along its internal "Tyndallite" and "Populist" fault lines.
I had no idea how well organised the Populists were. Being a known Tyndallite I was kept in the dark over the furtive meetings taking place in the West Midlands region, and went to that year's annual conference completely unprepared for the stormy nature of the proceedings. JT attempted to make his speech and all hell broke loose as the Populists chanted "Nazi, Nazi!" And then JT was deposed in favour of Kingsley Read. As quick as that.
I couldn't believe it.
The acrimony at the top spread down to our branch. We were seriously divided, and the two camps only ever came together at branch meetings which became set pieces of factional power play. By June 1975 our activist base had shrunk and the paper membership was in freefall. In July, after attending a meeting addressed by John Tyndall, I was voted off the branch committee. We were being weeded out, but following JT's orders did nothing that might earn us expulsion. Local activities virtually ceased, as there was no point in bringing in new members only to have them leave when they saw how divided we were.
What I should say at this point is that if anybody thinks the Populists were anti-Nazi in any specific sense, then they weren't. Before the splits we'd all sit in pubs discussing the Second World War from the German side, and sounding off opinions that could only be described as Nazi. The difference was that the Populists were desperate to hide any outward show of Nazism. One of their leaders, in an attempt to persuade some of us into their camp, made no bones about his admiration for National Socialism, but: "We've got to get to power before we can do anything about it, and to get to power we must have a clean image."
Quite a lot of people went along with that. Quite a lot of people are still going along with it in the present BNP.
I remember the second half on 1975 as a quarrelsome, vicious time. We hated each other. The only thing we had in common was that we hated blacks, Asians, Jews and homosexuals more (except we Tyndallites weren't so prepared to lie about it).
Things came to a head in January 1976, when elementary procedural mistakes by the Populist faction on the NF's National Directorate led to them losing control and leaving to form the National Party. Different regions and branches were affected in different ways. Our branch divided very badly, and there wasn't much love lost between us.
With JT back at the helm we began an exhausting round of activities. These were meant to boost morale, to rebuild the party, and above all to destroy the National Party. Luck was with us in that year. It was a year of multiple immigration scares, each of them helped along by the media and leading mainstream politicians.
We took advantage of each scare as it came along, and the structure of the NF (activist based and quick to react) ensured that we regularly made the headlines. We didn't always care what sort of headlines, so long as we eclipsed the National Party. While the National Party attempted to sink roots and develop an electoral machine, we were here, there and everywhere, soaking up the support they needed. Though they won two seats on Blackburn council that year we knew that their membership was slowly evaporating.
By late 76 it was obvious that the NP was finished, and in dribs and drabs they began to return to the fold.
I was almost alone in opposing this. As far as I was concerned, we'd just rid ourselves of a destructive disease and here we were injecting it into ourselves again! But I was overruled, and had to accept that people who had stood candidates against our own just a few months before had the same say as I did. It was galling. With some like minded comrades I settled down to a few beers, certain that sooner or later we'd split again.
Our branch never returned to the harmony of early 1974. We treated each other correctly, but there was always an air of tension that sometimes exploded into open hostility. It usually happened because the activists tended to be Tyndallite, while the ex-Populists were good at raising funds, but also good at telling us what they should be spent on. They didn't like us getting into scraps with the Reds, and they tried to dictate what I should put into my press releases (I was Press Officer at the time). And, for the sake of a slightly late payment into our bank account, they deposed our Tyndallite organiser and replaced him with one of their own.
It was obvious we weren't going to last long like this. We knew that nearby branches were in a similar condition, but HQ liked to pretend that we could all get on together, and told us to focus on raising a full slate of candidates for the next general election.
That gave the ex-Populists in our branch the leverage they needed. They were far more experienced in fighting elections than we were, and it wasn't long before I was the only Tyndallite remaining on the branch committee. Somehow we struggled along, but not without a lot of bitching, and all the time the local Reds were paying us more and more attention. It was a brave man who openly tried to sell "National Front News" in the city centre, even when protected by other members.
Activities outside of branch meetings were really suffering. Delivering leaflets became a risky business because the Reds always seemed to find out where we were within half and hour of our starting, and even branch meetings became secretive affairs as we were forced to move from venue to venue, booking under a false name each time.
In August 77 came the Lewisham march. Half way down to London our ex-populist organiser called a rest stop, which nonplussed us as we were cutting it fine anyway. So we arrived in Lewisham late, unable to join the march, and got ourselves mixed up with the Reds, who were being baton charged by the police. We had no choice but to dump our banners and hide our badges and pretend that we were part of the mob we despised.
Despite the Reds getting the blame for the violence, the publicity we got from Lewisham was all bad. Even the party leadership seemed to know it (but would never admit it). Though it wasn't the NF attacking the police on that day, many members who'd made the march said that they'd noticed a change in the police's attitude. Until then individual policemen were completely neutral, sometimes even friendly at NF marches. At Lewisham their attitude was one of barely supressed anger, and many NF members were roughly handled by the police. The marching party had gone on for too long, and it wasn't funny any more.
I don't remember exactly, but it was at about this time that No Platform came in (or was enforced more vigorously), and the NUJ instructed journalists not to report the NF and its activities unless in a negative light.
That really hurt us. It was something we couldn't fight and had no answer for, other than to continue making a noise by marching and demonstrating, which just brought us more negative publicity. We were really frustrated by that, but otherwise things seemed to be moving forward. We had Excalibur House, money was coming in, we put on members, and had our election targets to meet. But it wasn't the same. The old comradeship had gone.
We were very confident before the 1979 General Election, though. Martin Webster assured us that we were going to attract "hundreds and hundreds of thousands of votes", and we worked hard to achieve them. While we were focussed on that our internal contradictions were disguised, but only temporarily. We weren't fazed when Margaret Thatcher told the media of the public's fear of being "swamped" by a tide of immigrants, but we should have been. When two of our members left to join the Conservatives we Tyndallites saw it as vindication for what we'd been saying all along, that Populists were just Tories and could never be Nationalists.
The lead up to the election was a violent time. We couldn't hold public meetings anywhere without meeting violent opposition, but it never stopped us trying. Our "public" meetings always filled up with Reds, who we were legally bound to admit to publicly owned property. We'd protect the platform and place stewards all around the hall waiting for things to kick off, which they usually did very quickly. Then we'd pitch in not particularly caring who we thumped. My response to this was to do the same to them, and we disrupted as many left wing meetings as we could.
Come election night, reality dawned. We'd been thrashed. 303 candidates (if my memory serves) and not one of them got a decent vote. It was a shattering experience.
The blame game began, and the old divisions and the old arguments were quick to surface. At about the same time rumours of Martin Webster's homosexuality began to surface, with the circulation of photostats of statements various people had made alleging seduction attempts by him. And if there's one thing your average White Nationalist hates as much as a black, it's a gay. I was horrified, and wondered how Tyndall could continue to associate with Webster.
What I and most of the party didn't know was that JT had broken with Webster when the rumours were confirmed, and in the minds of most members Tyndall and Webster went together like bread and cheese. That gave the founders of the National Front Constitutional Movement a better opening than they otherwise would have had.
The NFCM was the sneakiest attempt to form a splinter party while pretending it wasn't that I've ever come across. In our depleted ranks the ex-Populists still had four out of five committee places (I was the fifth), and meetings seemed to be conducted as normal, except that sometimes, after the words "National Front", the words "Constitutional Movement" were tacked on. I asked what that meant, to be told "We're just supporting an internal Directorate attempt to change the party structure."
A quick phone call confirmed that the branch was actually operating outside the authority of the Directorate, and had to all intents and purposes joined a separate political party. It was obvious that a lot of secret meeting had gone on. I moved quickly with the only two other members to remain loyal and gathered up as much branch property as I could, but we lost most of it.
And there we were, just the three of us remaining in a branch that could once hold meetings of up to eighty. It was the same in other parts of the country. The NF seemed to be evaporating.
When we went on Webster's marches (there was one in Nuneaton, I think) we were only going through the motions and making up the ever dwindling numbers. Even the Reds didn't pay us much attention any more, and the whole point of marching seemed to have been lost. For me it was like being part of a beaten army fighting on to preserve its honour.
I was in touch with JT regularly at the time, and knew by now that he wanted Webster out. The plan was to change the constitution of the National Front, and to operate the party on authoritarian lines.
And so we reach the true genesis of the British National Party...
Atreus
(Part two tomorrow)
January 19, 2008
Reader article: A journey worth making... (Part One)
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41 comments:
Wow, a very informative article and nicely written. looking forward to part Two. Welcome to LUAF, Atreus.
Great article so far Atreus. And Hi.
Welcome Atreus. Great article and I look forward to the next installment
Love it. Another new writer too!
thank you, a great read.
I;ll say one thing for this blog. Even if i don't agree with everything you say you certainly attract some talented writers. Well done to the author and the blog owners.
Excellent article - good Saturday morning reading material. Look forward to the second installment. There is hope, there can be redemption. Good on you Atreus. Most BNP and NF members will really hate this article. But, for a small number it may make them think and hopefully reflect on what a pointless pursuit the BNP and NF are.
I don't get it, the guy has admitted being a Neo-Nazi and you are all congratulating him and welcoming him as if he's an anti-fascist. It doesn't seem clear to me yet what this person's motives are for publishing this, he may still be a Neo-Nazi, he may just be a rebel trying to show that the BNP really is stuffed.
Whilst I applaud LUAF for showing their fairness in reporting I don't think it means we should be supporting and welcoming such writers.
Not unless there's something in the article I have missed which suggests an element of remorse?
Nice article Atreus, I look forward to the next one, welcome
Joe, Atreus is anything but a neo-Nazi. The next installment will make things clear.
There are a lot of heavy hints in there that the writer isn't a nazi any more. The biggest one is that LUAF have accepted the article.
Sometimes it's good to see it from the other side and if the guy's telling it like it was from his point of view at the time we should take something away from it.
Good article.
A good article for a rainy Saturday morning. Where did you get those piccies from?
I was really encouraged by this article, and look forward to reading the next installment.
Equally, I was encouraged by your decision to publish it. Whilst I am a regular reader of your blog and a big admirer of your work, I have been deterred from offering to contribute to it or to assist your work in other ways because of your apparent association with Searchlight.
Being someone in the same boat at Atreus, a former NF official who is now an avowed and outspoken anti-racist, it is irritating to say the least to remain the subject of continued attacks by Searchlight, which still insists on briefing the media to the effect that I am a "Nazi" whilst omitting to mention the inconvenient fact that I have publicly and repeatedly renounced my former politics and have performed well-documented work in my own community in opposing racism and trying to build a united and cohesive community. A fact which, as a self-proclaimed authority on the activities of the far-right, it must surely be aware!
Whilst Searchlight's unhelpful activities do not deter me, they may have such an effect on some which, presumably, runs contrary to everything that you are trying to achieve?
It seems to me that some "anti-racists" operate to a political agenda which has the potential at times to conflict with the stated objective of eliminating racism.
I am reassured, if only a little, by your decision to publish Atreus' story. Please keep this kind of thing coming, as it may serve to encourage others to reject racism and fascism and, surely, this has to be good thing?
Are you sure the writer is an ex-nationalist? If the intention is to show the rebels that forming a new party is doomed to end the same way the NP and NFCM his article could not do it any better than the Griffin BNP could
It is interesting that Atreus says rumours of Martin Webster's homosexuality only began to emerge after the 1979 general election. When I was in the NF in the mid-1970s Webster's homosexuality was known but tolerated because he was such a good organiser. Everyone, at least in London, knew he lived with Mike Salt in Battersea and what the nature of that relationship was.
I think that after the NF's failure in the 1979 general election the existing tensions came to the fore (as Atreus describes so well) and people were looking for others to blame, and suddenly making a fuss about Webster' being gay was part of it.
A very interesting article indeed. Atreus may be an excellent addition to LUAF.
I;ll say one thing for this blog. Even if i don't agree with everything you say you certainly attract some talented writers. Well done to the author and the blog owners.
I'll go along with all those sentiments
"I don't get it, the guy has admitted being a Neo-Nazi and you are all congratulating him and welcoming him as if he's an anti-fascist. It doesn't seem clear to me yet what this person's motives are for publishing this, he may still be a Neo-Nazi, he may just be a rebel trying to show that the BNP really is stuffed.
Whilst I applaud LUAF for showing their fairness in reporting I don't think it means we should be supporting and welcoming such writers.
Not unless there's something in the article I have missed which suggests an element of remorse?"
Perhaps you ought to read the second half of the article before jumping to unwarranted conclusions, Joe.
@ midlander
If your post is for real, wouldn't it be an idea to write to LUAF under your own name to see if they're interested in publishing your own story? I'm sure they would deal with any communication with confidentiality - working with Searchlight does not make them Searchlight puppets. As I believe has been said on a number of occasions here, LUAF will work with anybody who helps to further the anti-fascist cause. It may be worth talking to them at least.
@ zeev
Is this a guess, or do you speak as one who knows?
"Even if i don't agree with everything you say you certainly attract some talented writers."
Thank god Keith Axons not on the team.
Interesting statement from Master Nazi John Tyndall (taken from Spearhead Online) about Nick Griffin’s shiftable attitude towards homosexuality, in particular the homosexuality of that maximum nazi twat, Martin Webster:
“The tale takes a kind of diary form, with commentaries recorded against the months in which things happened. The first such entry is for December 1983. Here it is stated that "a meeting of the National Directorate voted to expel [Martin] Webster and his homosexual lover Michael Salt from all their paid and elected positions within the party." Now that really is interesting - because not so very long previously Mr. Griffin had been one of those in the NF who had opposed John Tyndall's move to have Mr. Webster dismissed on the grounds of his homosexuality! This sounds a rather Damascan conversion, but no doubt Mr. Griffin will be able to explain it - as he usually has an explanation for everything”.
Putting aside the bitterness in Old FührerTyndall’s account, it’s interesting to read that in some historical accounts of National Front fratricide, Micheal Salt has been euphemistically reduced to Martin Webster’s ‘assistant’. Being bum chums in the loony far right ain’t what it is made out to be!
"Is this a guess, or do you speak as one who knows?"
I've spoken to Ketlan a few times and he doesn't come across as anyones puppet. I don't know Denise but she doesn't give the impression of being anyones puppet either. But all you can do is ask if they're interested. If they're not, fine, what have you lost?
Just curious: is the non de plume ‘Atreus’ motivated by a sincere interest in ancient mythology (Atreus is killed by the son of Atreus’s brother whom Atreus had killed)? Or, is it inspired by AJ Hartley’s book, ‘The Mask of Atreus’, which centres on the body of Agamemnon (son of Atreus, who drives our his father’s killers, thus recovering father's kingdom) which turned out to be the body of Hitler (in the book, we go from Troy to today via WW2 and neo-nazis)? Agamemnon and Hitler are oft compared, given that both embody characteristics of ruthlessness, imperialism, etc.
"Perhaps you ought to read the second half of the article before jumping to unwarranted conclusions, Joe." - Zeev
How exactly am I meant to do that when as far as I know it hasn't even been published yet!?
As for jumping to unwarranted conclusions?
I am not jumping to any conclusions, that was my point! It is those who are jumping to the conclusion that this person is now no-longer a fascist who are jumping to conclusions, that is what I was responding to.
There's something a bit strange going on here.
@ Midlander
Zeev is quite correct. You have nothing to fear (and nothing to lose). Get in touch.
@ Joe
This article is appearing on consecutive days, rather than (as was the original intention) over consecutive weekends because it was felt some people might mistake its intent.
Patience will be rewarded, Joe.
Joe Chapman said...
"There's something a bit strange going on here."
You're being unecessary paranoid Joe, the blog mods will have read the full article or do you think they would run the risk of publishing an article from a nazi?
Have they ever done that before?
All paranoia is unnecessary isn't it?
You're being unecessary paranoid Joe, the blog mods will have read the full article or do you think they would run the risk of publishing an article from a nazi?
Exactly.
It's stupid to think LUAF would print something to help the Nazis.
Wait until the whole picture is there.
We've got one Nazi troll already posting this crock of shit
"Just curious: is the non de plume ‘Atreus’ motivated by a sincere interest in ancient mythology (Atreus is killed by the son of Atreus’s brother whom Atreus had killed)? Or, is it inspired by AJ Hartley’s book, ‘The Mask of Atreus’, which centres on the body of Agamemnon (son of Atreus, who drives our his father’s killers, thus recovering father's kingdom) which turned out to be the body of Hitler (in the book, we go from Troy to today via WW2 and neo-nazis)? Agamemnon and Hitler are oft compared, given that both embody characteristics of ruthlessness, imperialism, etc."
Just curious!
Just fucking worried more like.
Joe Chapman said
"All paranoia is unnecessary isn't it?"
You obviously feel yours is necessary - dont you trust this blogs mods? Implying they would publish an unrepetant nazi's article doesn't show much faith in their abilities. Why not be a bit more trusting in your colleagues have they ever let you down or given you any good reason to be as suspicous as you are?
Why have the comments for this article turned into a bitch about me?
Firstly, I'm not paranoid, paranoia is irrational fear, all I actually said was that the person's motives for writing the article weren't clear and on that basis I couldn't understand why people were jumping to conclusions. I wasn't the one jumping to conclusions about this writer being a Nazi, the writer himself is telling us he was a Nazi but I couldn't find anything in the article explicity renouncing that fact.
I did actually write that I applaud LUAF for their fairness, that seems to have been overlooked in favour of having a swipe at me.
I take this whole business very seriously and know that although politically I may not get on with people like Denise I do think she is a good, honest, decent person with integrity, also importantly Denise and the other contributors are doing a great job at fighting fascists.
What you have to understand here is that I have spent several years fighting BNP scum practically on my own, my self-esteem, confidence and trust in other people has taken a bit of a kicking because of that. I'm not a member of any organisation, that is through choice because I realised that the fascists have a habit of digging up dirt about an organisation and using your affiliation/association with that organisation against you. Not only that, it seems that some anti-fascist organisations can't even get along. It is difficult to know who to really trust, I take people on their words and deeds and don't automatically trust someone, which is a shame.
On my local forum, the Oxfordshire forum, there is a thread about UAF in which someone has posted a quote from Searchlight where they say they are leaving UAF due to various reasons, I don't trust Searchlight completely and it seems that if you are seen to be using Searchlight you get discredited in your arguments, I have no way of finding out whether Searchlight's accusations are correct without asking someone in UAF, can I trust UAF though? If Searchlight is correct in it's accusations about UAF then I have a problem with continuing to be seen associating with UAF.
It seems, as far as the internet is concerned (which is becoming more and more important by the day to all sides) that there are actually very few decent anti-fascist web sites out there and very few people on the frontline getting stuck into opposing the views of the fascists.
This blog is the best anti-fascist site I have found but some of the comments on here and the way I feel I have been treated are making me wish I hadn't got involved.
This blog is the best anti-fascist site I have found but some of the comments on here and the way I feel I have been treated are making me wish I hadn't got involved.
Everybody's contribution is equally important, Joe, and I for one have the greatest respect for your efforts.
Here we don't get involved in the disagreements that sometimes arise among anti-fascists. We're pretty much independent, pragmatic and try to stay focussed on our target.
I think there has been a certain degree of misinterpretation on this thread, but don't take it personally. People are very loyal to this blog, and will become defensive if they believe (wrongly) that it is being taken to task.
Joe's anti-BNP website can be found here http://www.thebnp.org/
joe chapman said
"some of the comments on here and the way I feel I have been treated are making me wish I hadn't got involved."
I think you have to look at yourself joe I'm afraid, you came out all guns blazing, you were not polite and seemed to be looking for an argument even implying the hosts of this site were dumb enough to post a two page article from an unrequited nazi, and you complain you have been treated harshly?
Sorry LUAF this is nothing to do with the actual post, which was a very interesting read, but I just noticed that Joe Chapman is from the Oxford area.
Joe, do you have an email address? I looked on your site and couldn't see one.
I'm living in Oxford at the moment and Essex BNP are sending out a ton of messages about things going on in Oxford, such as the Cowley Road Mosque wanting to do a prayer call, so I suspect they're going to try and gain a foothold in the area.
It would be good if we were ready for that, drop me an email if you're interested, my address is on my blog sidebar.
dishytrishy,
I am sorry for not coming across polite, I did compliment LUAF on being fair, I meant what I said and I think that was being polite. You in particular seem to have a problem with me, what is the problem?
All I have done is put forward my view on the article so far, sorry that is unacceptable to you and that you think I was not polite.
Can we please stop all of this now and get back to the issue? After all, I don't think I've done anything so bad as to warrant being pulled up on everything I say.
Duncan,
What you have told me is a bit worrying, have you got a myspace account you could contact me on please?
mine is Joe Chapman's Myspace page
Thanks
Can we please stop all of this now and get back to the issue?
A storm in a teacup.
Let's make this the last word on the matter.
Hi, this is for Joe Chapman. My post from Monday morning (21st Jan) was removed from the Oxfordshire forums. I'd posted Martin Webster's claim (his sworn affidavit) that Martin Wingfield (editor of the BNP's Freedom newspaper) sexually abused a 14 yr old girl (I had taken it from the site of Britain’s premier black nazi, Sharon Ebanks). It was removed when I went back to the forums in the afternoon (also, Temporary Achilles Heel's posting with the links to Atreus' articles was also removed). However, it seems there is no censorship of the racist BNP monkeys who seem to permanently inhabit the Oxfordshire forums. Why was the post removed?? Either the BNP complained real hard or the forum moderator is a BNP member/sympathiser. The BNP trolls on the forum really showed themselves to be born-again twats this morning. Superb specimens of devolved pond life.
Re: Oxfordshire Forums
Unfortunately the moderators of Oxfordshire Forums are just plain useless, they don't actually do any moderating, they just wait for someone else to complain then react in a knee jerk way. I don't think they bother checking what is being posted in the forum. Either they don't have the time or are just lazy.
I suggest you complain to someone higher up in Newsquest and I know exactly the people you need to contact:
Regional Digital Media Manager
Trudy Wilkes
t: 01865 425270
e: twilkes@nqo.com
Digital Media Content Manager
Malcolm Bradbrook
t: 01865 425465
e: mbradbrook@nqo.com
These details are available from Newsquest Oxford's own web site here:
http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/contactus/
Hi Ducan,
Perhaps try contacting the Independent Working Class Association (IWCA) in Oxford. They should be reliable anti-fascists. I understand that the IWCA have a couple of councillors in Oxford. Anyway, the contact details of IWCA Oxford are:
http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/
www.iwca-blackbirdleys.org.uk
Email:
administrator@iwca-oxford.org.uk
stuart@bliwca.fsnet.co.uk
Mob: 07733 274 324
Address:
Oxford Independent Working Class Association, c/o BM Box IWCA, London WC1N 3XX
Blackbird Leys Independent Working Class Association, c/o BM Box IWCA, London WC1N 3XX
Btw I’m not an IWCA member. We all need to unite in the face of the threat of fascism and racism. No surrender to the BNP!
Inform Stuart Craft that he's about to get more spam now too by the looks of it!
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